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Post by kmik on Oct 20, 2017 19:56:24 GMT -6
Apparently MK was not the only one to post about Justin covering Sue. In 2008 Spencer Smartt copied a post written by Josh from Jesse's forum. This is what Josh said about Justin covering Sue:
A cassette recording of the crime scene photos said that Tina's bed was the bed they believed the blanket and sheet came from that was used to cover Sue because there were some blood smears toward the middle of the bed where it looked like someone scraped or pressed against the sheets, when the covers were taken off, and had blood on their hands. The other bed which they believed was Sue's had a blanket on it because they mentioned it when going over that CS photo.
Why in the world would Justin feel the need to cover Sue? Did somebody ask him to? I can't believe the killer allowed him to do that and if the killer was gone by then why not just go for help?
Shelia said in a 2008 post:
Remember more? I've never heard of anything they remembered.I can understand them not talking about this constantly, but for 3 years after the murders Tina was missing. They had no idea if she had been kidnapped or murdered. Are we to believe they worried more about the boys having to relive what happened than they did about finding Tina? Those boys memories, if any, were ALL they had that might possibly lead them to her. If I can't grasp this then certainly the police were puzzled because they had 3 dead, one missing, 3 alive, with only 1 (who had been in the same room as the 2 living) who even claimed to have any knowledge of what had gone on in 28. And the 2 living were the family of the 1 missing. How could the police possibly wrap their heads around this?? 36 years later it's still unbelievable.
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Post by Admin Horan on Oct 23, 2017 15:34:13 GMT -6
Sheila herself reminds a grown up Ricky Sharp on the "Tour" video that Sue usually slept on the couch. So, why would her blankets be in the bedroom? And BTW, TWO blankets were covering Sue. Why not use one to cover her and Johnny, and the other one to cover Dana? Why only Sue? Why did the killers bother to gag Sue, unless they hesitated to kill her? Who would do that?
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Post by jmo on Oct 24, 2017 13:20:44 GMT -6
Sheila said Sue "usually" slept on the couch but she made "usually" sound like "always". Did someone go to the bed, grab a blanket, cover Sue, stand back and realize there was already a blanket on the couch and flip that one on her, too? Were both blankets spread over Sue or was the first blanket not meant to so much "cover her" but was just tossed off the couch with Sue? Interesting.
To a killer, I wouldn't think Sue's body would have been any more important to cover than anyone else's. Sheila? (But, she said no she didn't but she knew it was Sue? Well, to be more exact, she knew it wasn't Tina? She's done a good job at confusing me.) Tina? Seems to me she was removed quickly or fled quickly, one or the other, so I don't really see her doing that. Not the two boys nor the Seabolt boy. Justin? He had quite a bit of time "alone" and maybe he tried to "cover" for his own curiosity? Who else could have? I think we're down to Justin on that one. idk What's your opinion?
Sue's glasses were in the bedroom so she either: 1. Went to bed, expecting to sleep there (But, Sheila said usually like always?) 2. Went to bed but got up to sleep on the couch (Waiting up? Why not have her glasses?) 3. Was awoken and brought to the living room without her glasses or 4. Someone actually thought about taking Sue's glasses from the living room and putting them on her nightstand in the midst of a horrific crime scene and it was all part of an elaborate scheme to throw off a state wide police investigation that never happened. I'm just gonna cross off 1, 2, and 4.
I would never gag someone if I was trying to get information out of them or if I intended to kill them. Why bother? I'd get in bam bam and get out. (Oh, no. Now I'm sounding like a speculating Marde.) Do you think Sue was gagged to keep her quiet until the boys got home and that's when it got out of hand? Because it sure seems like the boys were interrogated for at least a short amount of time. That would suggest the boys were the target not Sue nor Tina (who could have been taken at any time). So why then? Why THAT night? Do you have an opinion on who the target was? Or if there even was a target?
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Post by kmik on Oct 24, 2017 15:06:53 GMT -6
We felt for a long time that Sue was in the living room sleeping just as Sheila and Ricky said she always did. But if Sheila was going to be sleeping next door and Johnny was bringing Dana home then why not sleep in a bed? (There was a cs photo of the nightstand in her bedroom with her glasses and a cigarette not fully smoked in the ashtray?). So it looks like maybe she decided to sleep in the bed vs the couch. So something must have suddenly brought her out to the living room. We may be wrong but from the cs cassette recording Sue was covered with one blanket and one sheet that came from the bed which they referred to as Tina's bed.
As for the boys being interrogated, it's certainly possible. But they were uptown all day and all night, hitchhiking, seen by many people, if someone wanted to get them or question them. Why wait till they were at home with a house full of people? From the autopsies, and our untrained eye, the boys had no defensive wounds on them or blood under their bindings which lead us to believe they were laying on the floor, hit in the head, and then their wrist bound. The cord around Johnny's feet and the tape around Dana's seem to have been a sloppy afterthought. It appears they were laying in the floor watching the only tv in the house and maybe fell asleep or fell asleep waiting on somebody to pick them up later on.
As for the hairs found in Johnny's hand and on his jacket and the one found on Dana we just don't know. Were they human or animal? We know from a report the hairs were examined in 2003 and didn't have enough root material.
We'd love to connect someone from the pon list, Chuck, Henry, Karl, Phillip, Wade, Bo, Marty, etc... but the truth is the police took these people's fingerprints. If not in 1981 then they were eventually on file at some point later. They resubmitted some prints in 1986. If they had an unidentified fingerprint maybe it was Justin's or one of the Sharp's? Just not sure they have any prints that have not been identified.
According to Sue's autopsy she was short so it wouldn't have taken much of a fight to bring her down. She is the only one of the 3 who appears to have attempted to fight off anyone. Was she fighting with someone who was about her height (short)? Seems someone taller would have busted her nose or lip during her struggle yet she had no bleeding on her face until after she was gagged. Did she come out screaming or threatening to call the police so they felt the need to shut her up?
Tina? We will never know if she left there bruised and bleeding or if she left there dead. Did she call someone to pick her up? The police have never released any information they have on her other than the molesting incident and the gossip of her possibly being pregnant. What did people who knew her and were around her have to say? The only new info that has ever come to light since Josh did the documentaries and posted reports on the forum wasn't even from a forum. It was from the ID show when Greg Hagwood said Joel Lipsey was seen in the Keddie Bar that night. That is the only new information that has ever been revealed.
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Post by Guest on Oct 25, 2017 21:55:29 GMT -6
Do you all have access to the Keddie 28 site?
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Post by kmik on Oct 26, 2017 5:05:01 GMT -6
Yes forbidding us access to Cabin 28 is only good for our IP address. We remain AMAZED at the people who hang on every word shared by 28. It is very clear that most are sitting on the edge of their seats waiting for Dmac to fill them in on what happened as Gamberg "shares" his information with him.
Our thoughts on his new "bombshell"? Well, Mike G. has been actively investigating this case since 2013. Are we really to believe that it has taken Mike 4 years to read or reread information on Karl Spang and dig up the nugget of info that Sue was seeing Marty (as told by xxxx who had seen Sue at FRC and knew how protective and possessive Marty was of her). Too bad xxxx is the only person who has said that according to info we have and was xxxx really describing Sue or Marilyn? If it was obvious enough for xxxx to notice then there should have been MANY more who saw the same thing. And we certainly would not have a hard time believing Sue was seeing Marty or anyone else - we've just never read where anyone, other than the "anonymous" letter to the school counselor, said that Marty and Sue were seeing each other.
Do we really believe Mike G. needs to bounce ANY thoughts around with Dmac? It's almost hilarious to believe that he would email a forum administrator, who doesn't have all the info, and ask what his thoughts are on anything. We all know what his thoughts are without asking. As far as we know the police do not allow someone without info and a one sided theory to help in a investigation. Mike G has either found himself where all those "corrupt" cops have found themselves for the last 36 years - at a brick wall - or he's just trying to pacify 28 in case someone, someday, confides in 28 what happened in the hopes that 28 will in turn confide in Mike G. Other than speculation, the only 2 people we can see that would turn this case around would be Justin or Ricky. There is no way Justin would confide ANYTHING in 28, and there is no way that Ricky would confide ANYTHING in 28 - especially if Sheila wouldn't even acknowledge him during the filming of the ID show.
Mike G wants to solve this case himself and he doesn't need Dmac to help him - so we don't hang our hopes on anything he "shares". Tom's forum here is what we were looking for when we joined "28" back in 2015. We just like to discuss and research the info we have.
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Post by cancersucks on Oct 26, 2017 12:25:12 GMT -6
I read the bombshell this morning. I'm still laughing. Yeah, OK. So a bartender, a cop, a student, etc all knew Sue and Marty were an item but this is only being brought to light now. Not 1 person thought to push this 36 yrs ago. Yeah, I get it, it was in a report from '81 but it's brand new to us today. Grasping for anything that implicates the dead guy. Sheesh!
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Post by cancersucks on Oct 26, 2017 12:30:10 GMT -6
Oops. Hit the reply button before I finished my post.
Why, in all these yrs, wouldn't Sheila or Ricky say "hey cops, mom was dating and sleeping with the neighbor and he was really jealous of her". Again, I don't buy it.
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Post by jmo on Oct 26, 2017 16:33:52 GMT -6
Wow. Me either. Even the way it was written was weird. "Mike and I have been emailing back and forth and he found ( ?) that PROVES that Marde was sleeping with Sue." YAWN... Out of all that information in the Keddie room THIS is what is considered a BOMBSHELL? It's just more of the same sh*t about Sue that is irrelevant and most likely a LIE. Now, he has Sue as prostituting herself. You know, I spend tooooo much time on what dmac writes. It's getting crazier and crazier. He sure is scraping the bottom of the barrel. I personally don't care who Sue was sleeping with. Do I think she was sleeping with Marde? No. Marde was obsessing over Marilyn, not Sue. Maybe, he was PO'd she was making some googly eyes at Wade, but Sue was well under Marilyn's (and Marde's) radar. A NON-ISSUE I would even go so far as to say. The new lady next door with 5 kids. Did Marilyn want to be "friends" with Sue? Probably. And, if Sue had stayed alive a bit longer, they might have become friends. Marilyn did go through a few men. lol. If Sue took up with Marde, Marilyn would have run to Wade sooner. If Sue would have run to Wade, Marilyn might have turned a little green....But, that didn't happen. Next D will have Wade paying Sue for sex as well. Gotta fit those pieces together. haha JMO but Marilyn was pretty much done with Marde anyways. No jealousy there. We would have heard it straight out of Mama Meek's or Mrs. Seabolt's mouth. Right after Marilyn announced MARDE'S BEEN SLEEPING AROUND!!! In April of 1981, Marde was a One Woman sorta guy. And, her name was Marilyn. So, about Marilyn. The night of the crime, she walks to the bar with Marde and Bo where she has a pretty sad time. She sits at the bar, probably wishing they could mingle with the "pretty people" that are celebrating on the other side of the room. But, nope. She's never invited to any of that. Ho hum. They all walk home. She goes to bed. She hears Marde and Bo come in talking about the Reno trip they're taking in the morning. (Probably for the starter her car needs.) At some point Marde comes to bed and she pretends she's asleep (haha). The next thing she knows is Justin is saying get up all the people are dead. And, she is like "Whhhhaaaaaaaat?!?" Maybe it crossed her mind that Justin had a part in it? (I'd wonder. Might not say it aloud but, da*n straight I'd wonder. Ummmm....It's JUSTIN after all. And, Marilyn wasn't a big Justin fan when he was a kid.) But, days, weeks, and years later, people have confused her. She wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed to begin with and then she has people TELLING her what SHE said and she does fight it for a while. But, after being pounded with Meeks and Seabolts versions of the events, she concedes. Yes, you did, Marilyn. No I didn't. YES, you did. No, I don't think I did. YES, MARILYN. YOU REMEMBER. Do I? Ok. Maybe I did. Jeez Louise. Every once in a while she pokes out her head and gets shot at again. And, LE surely would have pinned this crime on her if they could. She wasn't a big bad drug runner. She was just a lady that was sick and tired of being sick and tired from what I can gather. The only interviews that may be worth anything at all at his point are the first few. After that, everyone was mucking up everyone else's story. And, where are the stories about Marde and Sue? There aren't any. Because...there aren't any. Who is this bartender? Wasn't he (she?) supposedly from the bar that Spang said he went to after all his spying around Keddie? What's more likely? Marde and Sue meeting secretly at this bar or Marde and Marilyn going to that bar? Just one more thing Spang has his hands in. Until I actually see an actual REPORT stating this, it's laughable. Sheesh #bottomofthebarrel
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Post by cancersucks on Oct 26, 2017 17:41:43 GMT -6
Nice post jmo! I agree completely. This latest is just so far-fetched at this late date. Show me concrete proof from 1981. Otherwise it's another fabrication.
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Post by kmik on Oct 26, 2017 20:26:11 GMT -6
Cancersucks and JMO we loved the post and could not agree more!! Karis just had a really good thought. If Mike G isn't able to get Marilyn, Dee, Tony, or Justin in handcuffs soon then "28's" next bombshell may very well be that Mike G. resembles the Avery Schreiber lookalike described by Frank Davis.
JMO you made a good point about Marilyn. It really looks like the Meeks played a big part in convincing Marilyn of what happened and also of convincing Josh and Sheila of who they really needed to be looking at.
PS. CS glad to see you posting again and hope you are doing well!
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Post by cancersucks on Oct 27, 2017 7:57:48 GMT -6
Thanks kmik. I'm feeling a bit better.
Lol - Avery S. Lookalike
they just aren't getting how manipulative the Meeks are in this. They can make the cast of characters think they saw or heard things that weren't there.
...waits for next bombshell.
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Post by karis on Oct 27, 2017 19:49:37 GMT -6
The only Pioneer Bar bartender that we know of who dispelled Karl S.'s story to deputy Wright is on the PON list:
L., JUDY
Bartender Pioneer Bar, K. Spang not there on night of 187 <WRIGHT>
This lady passed away in 2006.
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Post by jmo on Oct 27, 2017 21:03:04 GMT -6
Wow. So what bartender could David be talking about??? K. Spang. Not. There.
Wow.
I'd really like to know if there was another bartender. Anybody here still playing nice with David? I wonder if he'd cough up a name. I don't see why not if it's true.
But We All Know How That Would Go
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Post by kmik on Oct 27, 2017 22:26:06 GMT -6
If one of Josh's producers, who helped on the documentary, claimed it was fairly common knowledge that Marty was "fixated" on Sue, Josh would have used that in his documentary. It would be hard to believe that nobody came forward with this info - until now. According to the bartender she knew Sue from FRC (2 semesters prior to May 81) and Marty was carrying her out to the Pioneer Bar in Greenville (with all that money he had)? The one thing we have never heard about Marty Smartt is that he was a ladies man. What do you bet he's about to become one?
We see the whole thing as just another hammer in the pond.
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