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Post by kmik on Aug 7, 2019 20:30:52 GMT -6
I think it's a good question. It's obvious there was a hamster cage in the living room so where did the hamster go?? Was this the hairs found on Johnny and Dana? Sue's kitchen counter appeared to be tidy so I'd have a hard time believing she left an empty hamster cage just taking up space in that cramped living room.
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kay
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Post by kay on Aug 19, 2019 13:02:12 GMT -6
If one of the hairs was whitish in color, and it was in fact hair and not fur, could it have been Sue’s? I’m sure at her age with a shitty ex husband and a whole litter of children to raise by herself she had a few gray/white hairs. I can’t think of why Johnny would have her hair in his hand, but it’s just a thought.
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nufto
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Post by nufto on Sept 15, 2020 17:14:49 GMT -6
"IF" the pellet gun didn't come from 28 - that's the question that we don't have an answer to. Sheila was asked if Johnny had a gun but she did not know (no indication from our reports if Ricky was ever asked). So we do not know if Johnny or Justin owned a pellet gun (would have been a good question for Marilyn when she allowed 28 posters to question her - too bad they, as usual, were trying too hard to win points with Dmac, asking same old questions about cigarettes, phone calls, Marty's "friendship" with Doug Thomas, and cars-instead of asking real her questions). I too wonder why a barrel would be used instead of the butt - unless the killer(s) was sticking the barrel in their face and they were trying to grab it (which would have still been possible even with their hands taped).
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nufto
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Post by nufto on Sept 15, 2020 17:26:13 GMT -6
I don’t think the detectives working on the case would have been that slow to mistake hamster hair for human hair...too short to begin with. Wouldn’t be convinced either that this was an in house fight or argument that got out of hand...look at the damage inflicted on the victims(fractured teeth,broken jaw on Dana and so on). Also if Justin’s hypnosis session did indeed reveal some truth of what he slept walked and saw then as he says ‘a crowd gathered and we all went to shore’ may mean that Ricky and or Greg were with him,then went to bed. The passenger boat he speaks of might mean the sofa itself. Perhaps the kids saw the crime scene and simply blocked it out.
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nufto
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Post by nufto on Sept 15, 2020 17:56:25 GMT -6
It’s a very simple possibility that the killer or killers Brought the pellet gun to the house. ‘Pass me the scissors’.....to cut tape maybe or cut victims free of tape? Didn’t one of the policemen say in the video a lock of hair could be seen?....‘pass me the scissors’🤔
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Post by karis on Sept 16, 2020 2:12:43 GMT -6
Glad you are here nufto. Anything in this case is possible. And, the good thing about Tom's forum is you can say what you want because no one here knows what happened in that cabin.
-Caught up on the tape and in the drying/dried blood are multiple hairs, ranging in color from light tan to light blonde. These hairs are located on the backs of the hands and in the palm. One hair is described as "whitish" and fibrous (like a dog/cat hair).
-Attached to the sleeve of the jacket are several more hairs, blond in color (these were sent to the Department of Justice)
You are probably right. I don't like animals, a hamster is nothing but a glorified rat to me so i wouldn't know anything about them.
Well it was an argument that got out of hand whether it was "in" house or "out" house. What else could it have been?
Robbery? Sue nor the boy's had anything. Tina would have been the only thing taken from that house that was of any value to that family.
Rape? Sue wasn't raped, neither was Johnny or Dana. Tina? Well that is something we don't know. But the killer took the time to "stage" Sue's body but didn't get excited while he had her constrained and could easily have raped her? But according to what we have been told she was positioned in a way to shock when the crime was discovered.
I agree it could have been that way.
You are right about the gun, but I think if a person brought a pellet gun to that house to commit a murder, or scare anyone, then that person couldn't have been over the age of 13-14. I am sure Quincy kids knew all about guns. They seem to be into hunting and horses. And now it has recently been told Johnny had a pellet gun, so i don't think he would have been fooled by one. But who knows.
Good point about the scissors. IF scissors were used they either brought them (along with a pellet gun), or they had to search around the house for them. They didn't bring anything to restrain anyone because they took time to rummage around the girls bedroom for the electrical cord that was used, bypassing the one in plain sight in the living room, practically at the feet of the victims. Justin did mention scissors on a knife (swiss army knife). I don't know how strong the scissors were but i would think it could cut the tape and maybe hair too.
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Post by raemen2 on Sept 16, 2020 5:35:23 GMT -6
Where did that hamster go? Was Tina’s prized box big enough to temporarily house a hamster? The “game” that got out of control... teasing, mishandling, hurting a pet? Didn’t Dana have a history of animal abuse? Johnny was a bully? Maybe totally crazy, silly and inappropriate thought... did this all start over the mistreatment of a family pet?
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Post by karis on Sept 16, 2020 6:26:40 GMT -6
Raemen I think you right. Where was the hamster? It is never mentioned. I am sure they didn't just keep an empty hamster cage. It is documented that Johnny was a "bully" according to reports. And yes Dana DID have a history of animal abuse.
No this is not an inappropriate thought. The things that are inappropriate have already been splashed across facebook. You have taken facts and have made a great theory! As i said, i am not an animal lover so i've never thought much about that.
THAT might just be a reason for a kids to participate, if in fact they did.
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nufto
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Post by nufto on Sept 16, 2020 11:21:22 GMT -6
Hi karis. Thank you. Often wondered if sue was running from someone She wasn’t in keddie that long before this happened. Also as Tom said the ‘clove hitch knot’ is used every day by loggers. Is that knot familiar to the army as well?.
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Post by karis on Sept 16, 2020 17:13:46 GMT -6
It is possible that Sue was running from someone. According to documents she was probably running from a bad marriage. She was in Quincy/Keddie probably 1 1/2 years. I think she moved there in 1979.
As far as the clove hitch knot i can only say according to the what Dee Lake told, the police contacted him to see if the photo looked like anyone he knew. He was involved with the veterans there in Plumas, and he told on the documentary that "it may have been the way they were tied up", so i think the knot would be used by the military as well as loggers and maybe ranchers. It is also called 'hog-tied'. That is the "fastening together of the hands and feet (of a person) or all four feet of an (animal). So that particular knot would not have been unusual to people that dealt with cattle.
Oh and i've also been told the boy scouts learn the clove hitch. It is "one of the 8" knots they learn. But i don't know. My boys were not scouts.
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Post by raemen2 on Sept 17, 2020 3:29:31 GMT -6
Yes, the clove hitch knot is taught in Scouting. It has a lot of applications... boating, camping, climbing and various occupational uses. Personally, I don’t find the use of this knot to be that impressive of a clue. I think many people up in Keddie would be familiar with this knot. Where the police really that impressed and amazed with the use of this knot, IDK?
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Post by karis on Sept 20, 2020 8:42:32 GMT -6
Raemen, kmik and i have not been able to get your post off our minds. Your theory is backed up by facts not speculation.
Almost nothing is ever said about the cat or hamster. There is a picture of the bowl of water in the kitchen which i would assume was either a cat or dog's bowl. In a new photo's posted recently, it is said you can see the cat by the fence. So i am gonna assume they had a cat and at least 1 hamster.
It is possible that Tina, Justin and Ricky were still awake when the boys got home. They arrived home around 12:00 according to a "sleeping" Justin. Johnny could have started aggravating the younger kids with torturing the cat or hamster. Maybe he or Dana got the pellet gun and threatened to kill the one or both of the animals. That would have enraged a child who was very fond of the pet. Suppose the pet was thrown outside and maybe one or more of the younger kids went out side to hunt for it. Without finding the pet(s) then entered the house from the back, picked up a hammer on their way into the kitchen. From there it is anyone's guess as to what happened next but something or someone woke Sue, who got up without her glasses and ran to the living room stepping in someone's blood. Maybe she picked up the phone to call for help when she was prevented from doing so. Maybe the kids tried explained to Sue what the older boys had done, but fear and hysteria along with anger only made it worse.
Although this may not be what happened, it would answer alot of questions. It would answer why the boys were not kiled, why Tina was "taken", Why neighbors really didn't hear or see anything. Why there were no definitive wounds on Tina's bones. It just doesn't answer how she got to camp 18.
Thanks Raemen
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Post by raemen2 on Sept 20, 2020 18:25:38 GMT -6
Very interesting!
My gut feeling has always been that there was an “incident” that precipitated the violence that took place inside 28. Is that different than motive? Well, yes and no... there was plenty of family dysfunction to go around, the Sharps, Dana, Justin. My gut feeling is that dysfunction equaled an under lying rage that only needed the right spark and the right combination of people to set off the fire. Did the presence of Justin that night embolden Tina? Or vice versa.
I’ve always thought that if/when these murders were solved the “reason” would be a head shaker, not a convoluted mess that involves every second person in Keddie plus a police/DOJ cover up. Now, were other people involved that may have tried to ‘clean up’ or ‘stage’ the scene? IDK? However, my gut tells me that there were other people that knew what happened in 28 prior to Sheila arriving back home that morning.
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Post by kmik on Sept 20, 2020 18:44:35 GMT -6
Wow Ramen so well said and so true whatever the reason is!!
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Post by raemen2 on Sept 21, 2020 5:48:17 GMT -6
You are right... this has been staring us in the face from the very beginning, the empty hamster cage, hairs found on John (which happen to be common hamster coloring). What does it mean? Common sense dictates that Johnny had contact with an (the) animal prior to his death. Why? I doubt he carried it around with him during his various travels that day. I think your scenario isn’t that far off from what happened that night. I betcha if we could see a picture or get dimensions of the box Tina left with that night (didn’t this fact stump police... why would she take a box with her!?) it would be big enough to temporarily house a hamster! Wow, just wow!
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