kay
Junior Member
Posts: 94
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Post by kay on Apr 5, 2019 21:19:48 GMT -6
Wow, thanks for answering all my questions you guys rock!
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Post by snoho17 on Jul 2, 2019 22:24:15 GMT -6
I just cant keep away today. I always wondered if those scissor cuts weren't actually from the broken knife
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Post by snoho17 on Jul 2, 2019 22:36:44 GMT -6
A pack of camels but no butts
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Post by Admin Horan on Jul 3, 2019 6:42:36 GMT -6
Snoho: there was no blood on the bent steak knife, and none of the wounds showed signs of a serrated blade.
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camfaults
New Member
Researching cold cases of California.
Posts: 46
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Post by camfaults on Nov 30, 2019 12:48:11 GMT -6
I agree!! That's such and odd thing to "bring with them" and why would they bring their own medical tape to 28 but cut up all the Sharps electrical cords? Why not just bring some of their own? It appears everything used came from 28 except the pellet gun and we've never gotten an answer to Johnny or Justin owning/not owning one. Mike G may buy all of that but I doubt all the investigators before him did. Another thing that crossed my mind with the duffel or gym bag issue, could this have been the source of the medical tape? Was Dana and/or Johnny engaged in any athletics that involved them to wrap their hand with tape, such as wrestling? Did Gamberg use this type of tape in his martial arts training? I agree that Sue could have had medical tape in a first aid kit, if she had such a kit. She doesn't strike me as a woman who would have been overly prepared for doctoring children's cuts. She strikes me as someone who made sure she had money for her smokes and would rather send an injured kid to school to ask the nurse for a band-aid.
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Post by Admin Horan on Dec 1, 2019 5:24:40 GMT -6
Excellent point! Whether or not Sue kept any first aid materials in the house, Gamberg has told me that he was coaching Johnny and Dana (and other boys) in wrestling and martial arts. He also said that Dana had spent FRIDAY night at his house, with his sons. So, Dana probably had a whole duffel bag with him, and not just his diabetic kit.
Now, why would Dana's duffel bag/diabetic kit NOT be in Cabin 28? Remember, a LOT of what we "know" about this case is either wrong, or not actually known. Think outside the box...why was Dana's bag not found in Cabin 28...
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Post by raemen2 on Dec 1, 2019 16:59:17 GMT -6
Mere speculation as to why Dana’s duffel bag/insulin kit not found -
1.) Someone had an interest in the contents of the bag prior to the murders. Maybe the bag contain drugs/money and someone wanted it and took it away from Dana. Whether or not this action was a prelude to the murders -??
2.) Dana was attacked at a different location and his duffel bag or insulin kit was left at that location. Prof. Horan, I know you’ve thrown out this theory and I think it’s as believable as any other theory.... it would indicate that Johnny had direct involvement in the attack (Dana main target that night). Would Johnny and other(s) maybe try to get Dana some help, would Johnny bring Dana back to 28? Was that the fatal mistake for the rest of his family.
3.) The bag/kit was in 28 with Dana. The contents held interest/value (hypodermic needled?) and was taken by the perp(s) when they left the crime scene.
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Post by skeptic on Dec 1, 2019 18:24:27 GMT -6
One person's duffel bag could be another person's gym bag
From jmo's post 2/10/18 on the Chuck and Henry thread:
Fact: Very early on the morning of April 12, 1981, before the murders were discovered, Steven Edward Howard arrived at the home of a family friend, disheveled and agitated, asking to borrow her car or let him spend the night. Even though she liked Steven and had known him for years, she was a bit afraid of him and refused. He left Quincy thereafter. Seven years later, the same woman was at the Sacramento home of Steven Howard when an episode of California's Most Wanted began broadcasting an episode dedicated to the Keddie murders. Howard immediately became visibly upset and left the house. The woman and her sister watched through the window as Steven retrieved a duffel bag from the shed, which he threw into his truck. He then drove off. Conjecture: Perhaps Howard had nothing to do with the murders. Perhaps it is coincidence that he arrived in the middle of the night, clearly in trouble. Maybe the episode of CMW reminded him of the unsolved 1973 murder of his little sister Kathy, whose murder was so similar to that of the Sharp/Wingates. Or, perhaps something else?
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Post by kmik on Dec 1, 2019 20:51:25 GMT -6
Skeptic the "Steve H. story" is very interesting if it is true and I see no reason for Mrs. Alvey to have lied (although I do question why she waited so many years to tell the story to the police - maybe it's because her son and her sister were good friends with Steve?). It seems that Mrs. Alvey and her sister (the one in Sacramento that Steve was living with in 1989) had already discussed his possible involvement in the murders and his coming to Mrs. Alvey's house that Sunday morning 4-12-81 so when the show aired 8 years later her sister called and told her how strangely he had acted after the airing.
I don't remember anyone one who claimed to have seen Dana with a duffle bag that Saturday night. I do remember Rob Preston claimed to have seen Dana carrying a "large bag" around 6:30pm which was around the time the boys went over to Kathy B's. No mention of anyone seeing either of them with a bag after that. Meanie once said that many items laying on the living room floor of 28 appeared to be contents from a gym bag that was dumped out on the floor and it does - 3 pair of tennis shoes, socks, t shirt, gym shorts, song note book and music note book (remember there was a flute case on the table and the flute case appears to be open as if it was dropped which caused the case to come open and someone picked it up and laid it on the table with the case still opened).
We have no idea if Dana had a kit with him or not so we have no idea if a kit is missing.
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camfaults
New Member
Researching cold cases of California.
Posts: 46
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Post by camfaults on Dec 1, 2019 23:57:17 GMT -6
Another thing to consider is, did the boys enter Cabin 28 immediately upon returning or did they first go down into Johnny's bedroom to deposit any belongings or bags? If they entered Johnny's bedroom first, did anyone see them? If there was a party going on behind the Sharp cabin, did anyone there decide to harm the boys?
I keep coming back to the boys' prior drug thefts. Did they commit a theft that night? Were they carrying stolen drugs in the duffel bag? Were they carrying drugs to sell in the duffel bag, and perhaps cash from customers? I have a hard time with the scenario that these boys may have attended a party that night but did not partake in alcohol or drugs. If the toxicological tests performed during the autopsy are correct, and the boys did not use alcohol or drugs that night, then could their lack of "partying" have caused someone at the party to become paranoid that they were informants and killed them?
If there was a duffel or gym bag that disappeared from the living room of Cabin 28, it could have been used to remove bloody weapons. The Daisy air rifle was never recovered.
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Post by kmik on Dec 2, 2019 8:17:55 GMT -6
If a duffle bag was dumped out on the floor of 28 it belonged to Johnny or Sheila and nobody in the info we have reported seeing them with a duffle bag - only Rob Preston who claimed to have seen Dana with a large bag but no one else reports that after the 6:30 sighting. I agree it could have been used to take evidence out of 28 (gun, tool box, etc.).
Johnny and Dana seem to be wearing the same clothes they came home in right down to their shoes. It's probable that the boys did not go down to the basement but straight into the living room. Karis pointed this a while back but we have nothing in our info that states that Johnny "slept" in the basement - only Sheila telling that Johnny had a room downstairs years later in the documentary. So we need to remember that that is something told years later and not confirmed in our 1981 info. The boys bedroom in 28 had a bunk bed and a cot -beds for three boys. I find it hard to believe Sue had enough money for another cot and bedding for the basement room. I don't find it hard to believe that Johnny hung out in the basement room during the day or evening but I do find it hard to believe that he stayed down there at night without heat plus where would Dana have slept? It was warm and there was a tv upstairs.
I also have a hard time believing they didn't have any drugs in their systems. Maybe they really didn't or they did and the police chose not to tell it?
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Post by raemen2 on Dec 2, 2019 14:42:03 GMT -6
Could this family’s murder have started out as a gross misunderstanding of the start of a medical emergency (Dana’s)? Could it be as simple as that?
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Post by kmik on Dec 3, 2019 8:21:48 GMT -6
Anything's possible !!
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camfaults
New Member
Researching cold cases of California.
Posts: 46
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Post by camfaults on Dec 3, 2019 21:08:46 GMT -6
If a duffle bag was dumped out on the floor of 28 it belonged to Johnny or Sheila and nobody in the info we have reported seeing them with a duffle bag - only Rob Preston who claimed to have seen Dana with a large bag but no one else reports that after the 6:30 sighting. I agree it could have been used to take evidence out of 28 (gun, tool box, etc.).
Johnny and Dana seem to be wearing the same clothes they came home in right down to their shoes. It's probable that the boys did not go down to the basement but straight into the living room. Karis pointed this a while back but we have nothing in our info that states that Johnny "slept" in the basement - only Sheila telling that Johnny had a room downstairs years later in the documentary. So we need to remember that that is something told years later and not confirmed in our 1981 info. The boys bedroom in 28 had a bunk bed and a cot -beds for three boys. I find it hard to believe Sue had enough money for another cot and bedding for the basement room. I don't find it hard to believe that Johnny hung out in the basement room during the day or evening but I do find it hard to believe that he stayed down there at night without heat plus where would Dana have slept? It was warm and there was a tv upstairs.
I also have a hard time believing they didn't have any drugs in their systems. Maybe they really didn't or they did and the police chose not to tell it? I agree. The manner of dress of Johnny and Dana (in the crime scene photos) seems to indicate they came into the cabin living room wearing what they had on while outside. From those photos, I envision a scenario involving two or more assailants sneaking into the cabin through the rear door while the boys were crashed out on the floor watching tv. The cushions from the couch were on the floor, which might indicate they were used for pillows to prop the boys' heads while they watched tv. They may have also been spied on from the front window. When I heard that Marty had said Justin stole his phenobarbital, another scenario came to mind - could Justin have given those to Johnny and Dana to drug them? Would the toxicological testing of 1981 detect knock-out type drugs without testing for a specific drug? And what would be the breakdown of those drugs once the person was deceased? I would love to see this case broken down by Paul Holes on his new Oxygen show.
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Post by kmik on Dec 3, 2019 21:44:25 GMT -6
Yes Cam it appears that the boys came home and stretched out in the floor with the cushion - and one of them throwing their pack of cigarette's onto the couch (something any smoker would do). If that is Johnny's blood on the bottom of Sue's feet then Johnny was already bleeding (not running to her defense) when she came into the living room (without taking the time to grab her glasses) probably to see what was going on. There is no mention in the case files of Marty saying that Justin stole any drugs from him.
It would be wonderful for somebody who has never heard of this case to look at this case and and acutally be able to read the interviews of everyone that was questioned in 1981. We have never seen any interviews (out of that long PON list that we have) except for Marty Smartt and Bo Boubede's. Isn't that wild???
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